Without evidence of benefit, an intervention should not be presumed to be beneficial or safe.

- Rogue Medic

Excited Delirium 2

I expect to be writing a lot about the EMS EduCast – Excited Delirium: Episode 72. It is very important essential for EMS providers.

The first comment in response to my post, Excited Delirium: Episode 72 EMS EduCast, is from Tom Bouthillet of Prehospital 12 Lead ECG.

This was an excellent episode and I applaud Mr. Johnson for sharing his experience so that we can all learn from it. Clearly he has paid a high price and he has my sympathy, but I can’t join you in saying that he “did nothing wrong.”

If my understanding is correct, it sounds like he used a police baton to restrain the patient. While this may not have been the proximal cause of the excited delirium, it was very poor judgment. A paramedic should never use a weapon to restrain a patient unless:

1.) The paramedic’s life or his partner’s life is in danger
2.) There is no opportunity for escape
3.) A weapon (or an improvised weapon) is needed to level the playing field to restore safety

I can hear it now. “Hindsight is 20/20″ and “you’re an arm chair quarterback.” No, I’m simply pointing out that it’s a mistake to say that Mr. Johnson did nothing wrong. Clearly at least one major mistake was made.

Tom,

I agree that using the baton was poor judgment. When faced with an unstable situation, we will make snap judgments. Marty Johnson’s explanation is that he felt it was the only way he could get a grip on the patient. He stated that the patient was sweaty and he had latex gloves on, so the patient kept slipping out of his grasp. I would take the gloves off. Even though the patient is bleeding, you have to assume that the gloves have already lost their much of ability to act as a barrier to transmission of germs, but the gloves are acting as a barrier to being able to manage the situation.

We occasionally have to make important decisions about the appropriate amount of force to use. We should have thought these out, as much as is practical, ahead of time. How many of us have thought these things through?

This is a situation that may initially seem like it is not a big deal. the problem is that things do not get better. They get worse. Not just a little bit worse, but a lot worse. Not necessarily getting a lot worse right away, so that you just step back and re-evaluate or to retreat and call for help, but progressively worse, so that you may not be aware of the way things are spiraling out of control.

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
[1]

We expect to be in control.

During EMS education, we are even told the lie that we should be in control.

Because of this, we are frequently able to dismiss the evidence that we are not in control. Having developed this ability to ignore just how out of control things are, we react poorly when things do not go our way. We flail about and panic. Ironically, the patient may be doing exactly the same thing.

Would Marty Johnson do things differently, today. I think that he made that very clear. He is trying to get people to understand how badly things can turn out.

Even more important than the baton is the perception of the baton. Is a baton a weapon, if it is not used to strike?

Is a baton a weapon, if the baton is used to protect the person the baton is being used on?

Is a sedative a weapon?

Is a restraint a weapon?

A physical restraint?

A chemical restraint?

Consider the weaponized fentanyl variant used during the Moscow theater hostage rescue.

How much does the result affect the interpretation of the intent.

According to court testimony from Prof.A.Vorobiev, Director of Russian Academic Gemology Center, most if not all deaths were caused by suffocation when hostages collapsed on chairs with heads falling back or were transported and left lying by rescue workers on their backs; in such position, tongue prolapse causes blockage of breathing venues.[53]. Thus, part of casualties can be attributed to accident but at least some to unprofessional rescue efforts.[2]

Even if nobody had died in Moscow, the chemical would have been considered a weapon, but many of the deaths of the hostages would probably have been avoided with basic airway positioning. Some people vomited, aspirated, and asphyxiated. Others were suffocated by a lack of positioning, allowing the tongue to obstruct the airway. Had there been better organization of the evacuation, how many of these people would not have died that day? Had there been better organization of the evacuation, this might not have been a disaster.

How we act helps to show our intent.

When we are prepared, we can act more appropriately, even if the initial impression of onlookers (including medical command) is that we are being inappropriately aggressive.

When we are prepared, we can turn an unstable situation into a non-event, except for dealing with the protocols that discourage/prohibit appropriate care.

We use our hands for many purposes. We can use them to deliver painful stimuli. When done appropriately, there should not be any permanent harm, and the pain should be stopped as soon as there is an adequate response to the stimulus and only repeated if stimulus is again appropriate. The entire point of painful stimulus is to produce a response, and we do this on a regular basis.

Most often, we are using verbal stimuli, but we move to more aggressive stimuli, when the less aggressive stimuli do not elicit a response.

If we omit painful stimuli from our assessment/treatment, then we are neglecting some of our patients.

Was he charged with murder just because he used a baton to attempt to restrain a patient?

I don’t know.

Was Marty Johnson charged with murderous assault, even though he was driving the ambulance at the time the alleged crime occurred?

It does look that way.

If he had showed up and aggressively sedated this patient, would this have been anything other than a routine call?

Probably not.

The doctors may have made a big deal about aggressive sedation, even though it is probably the best thing for the patient.

Acting appropriately aggressively initially will often prevent a lot of bad outcomes. Our goal should be calls that are not memorable, because the patient was protected by aggressive intervention. Unfortunately, we have patients harmed by some protocols that discourage aggressive intervention, because What if . . . ?

I am not cavalier about the aggressive use of sedatives, opioids, or other drugs. I think that aggressive treatments should be treated as sentinel events. RSI Intubation is an excellent example of a treatment that should not be treated as anything other than a sentinel event.

Everything that we do has the potential for harm.

Aggressive oversight means throwing out the medical command permission requirements, but requiring that medics be competent before allowing them to work on their own.

Aggressive oversight means throwing out the medical command permission requirements, but requiring that medics be accountable for all of their actions.

Medical command permission requirements are purely for the psychological benefit of the people who do not understand medical oversight.

Medical command permission requirements are dangerous.

Footnotes:

[1] The Second Coming
William Butler Yeats
Poem of the Week
Poem

[2] Moscow theater hostage crisis – Chemical attack
Wikipedia
Article

According to court testimony from Prof.A.Vorobiev, Director of Russian Academic Gemology Center, . . . .

Gemology? – the science dealing with natural and artificial gems and gemstones?

Why is a gemologist, academic or otherwise, giving expert testimony on toxicology?

A better question may be – Why does the gemologist make more sense than everyone else quoted?

Or is it a translation error?

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More on Lasix in EMS

Some people may think that I am crazy for claiming that we should not use Lasix (furosemide). For a slightly different perspective, here is an emergency physician describing the appropriate treatment of unstable hypertensive acute pulmonary edema patients.

EMCrit is an excellent podcast blog with nice short podcasts. More important than being nice and short, the podcasts are science-based and address many of the issues that EMS treats. The first podcast from EMCrit is 10:33.

How important is furosemide?

Is the furosemide drug shortage important?

So, the first thing you do is get your Lasix . . .

Only

1:50

into

the

podcast.

OK,

maybe

I

was

thinking

of

a

different

podcast.

Maybe

I

was

wrong.

So, the first thing you do is get your Lasix and you throw it in the trash.

No.

I was right.

This is the podcast for me.

It’s not going to help you and it’s very potentially going to hurt you. No Lasix in these patients. Now, I’m sure your EMS providers have already given it. Well, that’s just fine, but you don’t have to exacerbate the problem. Most of these patients will end up volume depleted, not volume overloaded when you look at their intravascular space. You’re probably going to end up giving fluid to these patients, not trying to diurese them. The problem is not fluid overload.

Most of these patients will end up volume depleted,

Go listen.

10 minutes 33 seconds of somebody who understands CHF(Congestive Heart Failure)/ADHF (Acute Decompensated Heart Failure). And he isn’t subtle. 🙂

PS – Dr. Weingart, why not try to get those of us in EMS to improve our care of these patients, too?

High-dose NTG and CPAP are also treatments that can be given by EMS. In some places, these are given by EMS.

With sublingual NTG (NiTroGlycerin) we probably cannot give too much to these patients.

We should be using NTG by IV in EMS. In Pennsylvania, IV NTG is an optional drug for 911 services.

EMCrit’s page of references supporting this aggressive approach.

Updated 02/08/11 to reflect the new blog address for EMCrit. http://emcrit.org/ The old links did not redirect appropriately.

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EMS Garage Rant – Prehospital Pain Management


On BYOT: EMS Garage Episode 105 we discussed 2 things that I wanted to rant about – here is some of the second rant.

The second topic was prehospital pain management. I think that Chris Montera saw my post A Prehospital Pain Management Discussion at the NAEMSP Site and wanted to discuss it. There is a lot of excellent material at the NAEMSP discussion site.

There are a lot of ideas discussed on the podcast.

Listen to it.

Why are there so many doctors discouraging appropriate patient care?

What can we do to convince them that prehospital pain management is safe, effective, and necessary?

This is not directed at Chris, since he is aggressive with pain management. He was only repeating one of the arguments against aggressive prehospital pain management – actually, it is an argument against all prehospital pain management.

I scared Chris a little bit with my response, when he repeated what some people claim about pain – Pain never killed anyone!

If anyone wishes to provide some evidence, please do so.

If there is no evidence to support this claim, then prove it. Let me deliver some extreme pain to you, just for a while. I won’t break anything or burn anything, but I will see if I can cause enough pain to kill you.

If Pain never killed anyone!, it won’t kill you either.

What have you got to lose?

You will have experienced some memorable pain. You may have nightmares and other PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) symptoms, but since you have already made it clear that you don’t take pain seriously, why should you mind?

We’ll strap you to a chair, so that you don’t injure yourself by thrashing around. Safety first. We’ll hook you up to a monitor to see just how much stress your body is experiencing. We’ll even get a medical director, who believes in Mother-May-I protocols, to supervise. What could be safer – if you are right?

Pain is not dangerous, this is completely safe – Right?

If pain does not need to be treated, then there is no medical problem created by just causing a bit of pain – OK – a lot of pain. Or is pain dangerous?

Pain never killed anyone!

I dare you to prove to me.

Put up or shut up.

I can be reached at the email below or in the comments.

roguemedicblog@gmail.com

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EMS Garage Rant – Kenneth Stokes


On BYOT: EMS Garage Episode 105 we discussed 2 things that I wanted to rant about – and rant I did.

The first was the foolish suggestion that EMS should not wait for police to declare an active shooting scene under control before EMS enters. I wrote a bit about the background of City Councilman Kenneth Stokes in Mississippi Councilman Kenneth Stokes is Reckless and Irresponsible.

City Councilman Kenneth Stokes claims that it took over 20 minutes for EMS to get on scene because they were waiting for police. If that is the case, then maybe the problem is with the availability of police (hire more unless you are trying for the highest unsolved homicide rate in the country), not with EMS.

The odd thing is that the claim by City Councilman Kenneth Stokes does not agree with the dispatch times. 23 minutes per Stokes vs. less than 7 1/2 minutes from the EMS dispatch data.

Trust the dispatch data recorded at the time or trust a guy being investigated for repeated abuses while in office?

Maybe City Councilman Kenneth Stokes is honestly an idiot, but the articles I found about him suggest that there is nothing honest about him. If you feel that he should be given the benefit of the doubt, here is the way to reach him.

On Dave Statter’s blog, he wrote this in the comments, which is not normally where Fire and EMS go to sing Kumbaya together.

dave statter says

Kenneth Stokes is my hero. He has been successful where I have been a failure. In fact, I plan to nominate Mr. Stokes for the Nobel Peace Prize. Send him to the Middle East, for he has been able to inspire peace and harmony where no one else has, the STATter911.com mailbag. Finally something we can all agree on and not tear each other apart (just check the recent PGFD video comments).
For that Mr. Stokes, you will always have my gratitude.

Statter

on September 22, 2010 @ 3:12 pm.

The office of City Councilman Kenneth Stokes contact information from the Jackson, Mississippi government web page.

http://www.city.jackson.ms.us/government/citycouncil/

http://www.city.jackson.ms.us/government/ward3
Term Expires:
July 6, 2012

Committees:
Planning (Chair)
Rules (Vice-Chair)
Budget
Legislative
Water/Sewer Ad-Hoc

Mailing Address:
Post Office Box 17
219 South President Street
Jackson, Mississippi 39205-0017

Telephone:
(601) 960-1090

FAX:
(601) 960-1032

Email Address:
kstokes@city.jackson.ms.us

Administration:
Ms. Magnum

.

The Real Gold Standard Of Airway Management at 510Medic


510Medic has a nice post about The Real Gold Standard Of Airway Management.

The way he started out, I expected a riff on Nixon taking us off the Gold Standard – $35 an ounce due to price control then – now just under $1,300 an ounce. Last week, there was this – Gold Bet: $2500 Over/Under 2012. Even I am not cynical enough to take the over on that.

The Gold Standard 510Medic is writing about should be just as dead as the monetary gold standard.

There are some similarities. Both are inflexible and artificial limitations on change.

The idea that intubation is a gold standard only demonstrates an inability to adapt to what is best for the patient.

The gold standard is supposed to mean what is best for the patient, but does it?

In the emergency department, cardiac arrest patients are only intubated in the old fashioned Bretton Woods style of treatment. I expect the new guidelines to continue to de-emphasize intubation as a method of airway management.

In the operating room, intubation has become much less common.

If the emergency physicians and anesthesiologists are switching to more appropriate airway management methods, why isn’t EMS?

Because we are EMS. It sometimes seems as if you have to kick us in the head to get us to use our heads for anything.

As with helicopter abuse, we are not doing what is best for patients.

As with restrictive protocols, we are not doing what is best for patients.

As with on line medical command permission requirements, we are not doing what is best for patients.

As with cardiac arrest drugs, we are not doing what is best for patients.

As with spinal immobilization, we are not doing what is best for patients.

As with restrictions on prehospital pain management, we are not doing what is best for patients.

Are we surprised that, when it comes to airway management, we are not doing what is best for patients?

Let’s put an end to the Gold Standard terminology.

Airway management is about Ventilation – not Intubation.

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Appropriate Morphine Dosing for Opioid Tolerant Patients

What do we do, when treating a patient already taking opioids? When the patient is already taking a large dose of an opioid and has a valid prescription for the doses of opioid being taken?

Remember that there is no maximum dose for morphine. There is no maximum dose for any opioid – as long as there are no adverse effects, such as depressed respirations, altered mental status, hypotension, or bradycardia.

What do we do when this patient has something like a femur fracture that produces severe pain?

This patient is opioid tolerant, so the standard doses of opioid are unlikely to produce a satisfactory effect. By standard doses, I mean doses that would be appropriate for a patient who is not currently taking opioids. That would be a starting dose of 0.05 mg/kg morphine to 0.1 mg/kg morphine – repeated as necessary until the pain is managed to the patient’s satisfaction or until side effects interfere with treatment.

The patient will probably receive more relief by releasing some flatulence than he will from 2 mg morphine. The flatulence may even provide more benefit than 10 mg morphine for an opioid tolerant patient.

Standard doses are not going to work, so do we just ignore this patient’s pain?

Do we tell this patient that our medical director does not trust us to give larger doses of morphine/fentanyl/hydromorphone than standard, because the medical director either has not really considered this possibility or doesn’t think that patients, who are legally prescribed high doses of opioids, deserve to have their severe pain treated effectively. Or maybe the medical director is just so irrationally afraid of opioid medications that he is not interested in understanding opioid tolerance.

It isn’t necessarily the medical director who is the obstacle to treatment. I know of plenty of medics who would not even start treatment of this patient’s pain. Maybe out of fear of causing respiratory depression. Maybe out of fear of causing addiction, in which case they really need to work on their response time, because it is a bit late to be considering addiction or tolerance.

What do you think are the chances of causing dangerous respiratory depression for this patient:

With 10 mg morphine?

Low Medium High

With 20 mg morphine?

Low Medium High

With 30 mg morphine?

Low Medium High

With 40 mg morphine?

Low Medium High

With 50 mg morphine?

Low Medium High

With 60 mg morphine?

Low Medium High

With 70 mg morphine?

Low Medium High

With 80 mg morphine?

Low Medium High

With 90 mg morphine?

Low Medium High

With 100 mg morphine?

Low Medium High

Why?

What would be considered dangerous respiratory depression for this patient?

Why?

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A Prehospital Pain Management Discussion at the NAEMSP Site

Also posted over at Paramedicine 101. Go check it out at the new location at EMS Blogs.

I would have also posted this at Research Blogging, but this discussion is not the kind of research blog post that they are looking for.

Well, what needs to be said about prehospital pain management?

Drug Seekers.

Fentanyl vs. Morphine.

Fractures dispatched BLS vs. ALS.

Standing orders vs. Mother-May-I?

Nitrous oxide, etomidate, ketamine, NSAIDs (Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drugs), relaxation, ice, acupressure, et cetera. If it might be used by EMS for pain, it is fair game for the discussion.

Legal issues – when will the lawyers start going after medical directors/medical command physicians for withholding appropriate treatment/neglect/malpractice?

Pediatric Pain Management by EMS.

And more.

There is a discussion of Prehospital Pain Management on the NAEMSP (National Association of EMS Physicians) discussion site on Google Groups. NAEMSP Dialog. Anyone can read the discussions. They are there to be a kind of reference for people working in EMS. This is what some of the top doctors, administrators, educators, street providers, and even the occasional blogger have to say on a topic.

Here is a summary of the rules on participation:

Trying to facilitate a higher level of discourse on contemporary issues in EMS. Most of the list members are physicians, managers, and educators – along with street level EMTs and paramedics with an interest in academics and policy issues.

Everyone who wants to join the list has to provide their name and affiliation; all posts are reviewed by a moderator before being allowed to circulate; and all posts must be ‘signed’. There is some descriptive language about the Dialog on the home page of the Google Group (http://groups.google.com/group/naemsp-dialog).

Go read. If you want to comment, sign up, but don’t try to push the envelope on what you can get away with. The envelope has already been pushed.

Some familiar bloggers are also participating – Adam Thompson, EMT – P from Paramedicine 101, Tom Bouthillet from Prehospital 12 Lead ECG, Mark Glencorse from Medic999, and a couple of doctors from the EMS Garage – Dr. Bryan Bledsoe and Dr. Keith Wesley. Some of the other top medical directors in the country are participating as well.

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First Few Moments – Mechanism Of Injury or Idiocy


On the First Few Moments podcast we had an interesting discussion about the usefulness of mechanism in making treatment and transport decisions.

Mechanism of Injury or Idiocy?

Dr. Jeff Myers, Kyle David Bates, Rick Russotti, and Scott Kier.

Should anyone view mechanism as anything more than an indication of where to pay closer attention during assessment of trauma patients? In this case, a trauma patient does not mean a patient going to a trauma center, but a patient who has had any kind of injury.

One of the points mentioned is that the main controversies that have been discussed recently by several of us on other podcasts (such as Dr. Bill Toon mentioned on Doctor Doctor Doctor: EMS Garage Episode 101) is that too often we use treatments in the absence of a specific indication.

Oxygen – not to treat any signs of hypoxia, but because we figure it can’t hurt and What if . . . ?

The alternative is to have EMS competently assess the patient.

Spinal immobilization – not to treat any signs of spinal cord injury, but because we figure it can’t hurt and What if . . . ?

The alternative is to have EMS competently transport the patient.

Naloxone – not to treat any signs of opioid overdose, but because we figure it can’t hurt and What if . . . ?

The alternative is to have EMS competently assess the patient and manage the airway.

50% Dextrose – not to treat any signs of hypoglycemia, but because we figure it can’t hurt and What if . . . ?

The alternative is to have EMS appropriately assess and treat decreased levels of consciousness with the appropriate treatment – for symptomatic hypoglycemia, titrate 10% dextrose to an appropriate response.

Epinephrine – not to improve survival from cardiac arrest, but because of the short term buzz of getting a pulse back and we figure it can’t hurt and What if . . . ?

The alternative is to limit EMS to effective treatments.

Mechanism Of Injury (MOI) – to replace assessment – not to improve assessment, and because we figure it can’t hurt and What if . . . ?

The alternative is to have EMS competently assess the patient.

It is important to train/educate EMS well enough to be able to provide this competent assessment.

It is idiocy to have EMS use an irrelevant damage report on the motor vehicle, which we will not be treating.

Endotracheal intubation – not because it provides a better airway, but because somebody called it a Gold Standard and we figure it can’t hurt and What if . . . ?

The alternative is to have EMS competently assess and manage the patient’s airway.

Helicopters – not to improve treatment or make a significant difference in transport time, but because we figure it can’t hurt and What if . . . ?

The alternative is to have competent EMS.

The answer seems to be that we need to improve EMS and EMS education – a lot.

Maybe we need to create a No Fly Zone around each trauma center. For example, if the patient is closer than an hour drive time from the trauma center any flight should be treated as a sentinel event and investigated thoroughly.

Maybe we need to have the fire companies and ambulance companies pay for any flights that are determined to have been unnecessary. If we really want to limit unnecessary flights, what will work better than forcing those of us who call for the helicopter to have to have the ability to justify the flight medically.

If a helicopter is called, just because it is easier to send a patient by helicopter than by ambulance, a $10,000 to $20,000 convenience charge may be a great way to fund helicopters and to discourage abuse of helicopters.

If we do not understand what is going on medically with the patient, we should not be making patient care decisions.

Calling for a helicopter because I am too stupid to assess my patient is bad medicine.

If we are calling for helicopters, we are making medical decisions, so we need to be able to justify those medical decisions.

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